More Ultra-Conservative views from Pastor Rick Warren. Pastor Rick Warren has now joined the O'Reilly , Sean Hannity Ann Coulter crowd claiming anyone criticizing his views on Gay Rights and Women's Rights are themselves engaged in Hate Speech and are therefore Christophobes who are anti-Christian.
It is not just Gay Rights that he attacks but also in particular women's rights. Pastor Warren is anti-abortion and likens those who are Pro-Choice as being equivalent to "Holocaust Deniers" and that women who have abortions are equivalent to Nazis.
Pastor Warren claims that men and women are not equal and that women are to be subservient to men and wives in particular must be subservient to their husbands.
He also does not regard spousal abuse that is the abuse of wives by their husbands as an important issue. Since women must do what their husbands say that if they are not doing as they are told the husband has a right to discipline their wives and one can imagine their children as well.
Pastor Warren in his most recent statement claims that those who accuse him of Hate Speech because of his views on Gays and on Women's Reproductive Rights or concerns over Spousal Abuse are themselves engage in Hate Speech against Real Christians. He refers to all such people as Chritophobes or Anti-Christian. Again this is a common notion among the Religious Right and Evangelical Protestant Fundamentalists who regard all those who are opposed to some of their views and their theological tenets as Not being Real Christians. Only those who are members of his church and those similar to his can be rightly called Christian.
Homophobes and Christophobia & The Real Christians
Rachel Maddow & Katha Pollitt take Rick Warren to the woodshed- Dec. 23, 2008
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Anyway Obama's choice of Pastor Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inauguration has upset a lot of Obama's supporters. So the controversy continues if only Obama would show the courage to choose someone else - there is still time to do so. There are surely a number of Christian leaders in America who are more tolerant of Gays and Lesbians whom Obama could choose instead.
From what we know about Rick Warren he is no better than Dr. Dobson of Focus on the Family or Ron Luce of Battle Cry or the deceased Jerry Falwell. This does not bode well for Barack Obama and his attempts at bipartisanship and inclusiveness. Will he next appoint Bill O'Reilly to a cabinet post so that Obama can claim to be reaching out to all Americans no matter how crazy or Hateful their message is.
Melissa Etheridge believes that the Gay community should just tolerate Rick Warren at the inauguration and hope that situation for Gays in America will improve The Choice is Ours, by Meliss Etheridge , Dec. 22, 2008
Brothers and sisters the choice is ours now. We have the world's attention. We have the capability to create change, awesome change in this world, but before we change minds we must change hearts. Sure, there are plenty of hateful people who will always hold on to their bigotry like a child to a blanket. But there are also good people out there, Christian and otherwise that are beginning to listen. They don't hate us, they fear change. Maybe in our anger, as we consider marches and boycotts, perhaps we can consider stretching out our hands. Maybe instead of marching on his church, we can show up en mass and volunteer for one of the many organizations affiliated with his church that work for HIV/AIDS causes all around the world.
Maybe if they get to know us, they wont fear us.
I know, call me a dreamer, but I feel a new era is upon us.
But Melissa Etheridge appears to be outnumbered by those who would disagree with her and are outraged by Obama's choice of Rick Warren.
In the clip below Pastor Rick Warren appears to just be against the redefing of marriage and not against equal rights for Gays and Lesbians. But when we dig deeper the claim is not as straighforward as that . As we also see Rick Warren has some typical Conservative Evangelical views on a number of topics as I pointed out in yesterday's post and I will offer up some more examples of this below.
News: Hannity & Colmes - Rick Warren: Controversy Continues Over Prop. 8 in California
Robert Zimmerman & Hilary Rosen on CNN
Rick Warren's attitudes are characterized as hateful and divisive.
Using the Bible to malign and attack Gays and Lesbians.
CNN:No More Preachers At Presidential Inauguration AC360.com
December 17, 2008
In this next clip O'Reilly claims the Gays and Lesbians protesting outside Rick Warren's church should go to the African-American community since blacks voted in larger numbers tahan other ethnic groups against Gay Marriage . O'Reilly wants to trun the Culture Wars into a Race War or is he just making fun of white progressives and liberals. O'Reilly of course is also against Gay Marriage and so defends Pastor Rick Warren - that O'Reilly supports him is rather alarming in itself- so we do need to dig deeper to discover how conservative Rick Warren is and is he just another Bible thumping Fundamentalist who has a softer sales-pitch. .
But it should be noted that these commentators take it for granted that all "Real Christians " are against Gay Marriage and to a greater or lesser extent against Gay Rights.(*** see example below of United Church of Canada) It does bother a lot of these conservative Christians that Gays and Lesbians are no longer in the closet hiding what they the Conservative Christians & the Religious Right see as the Gays and Lesbians immoral life-style which they have perversely chosen. But there are Christians in America and in Canada who do not treat Gays and Lesbians as evil sinful perverts but rather as equal to all of God's Children as it were and that they can not only belong to a church but even become a minister or pastor .
Fox News: The O'Reilly Factor - Culture Warrior: Prop. 8 Protests at Rick Warren's Church
11.10.08 09:54 pm - Bill O'Reilly denounces Prop. 8 protests in front of Rick Warren's church: "My problem here is that they're directing their ire toward the wrong target. To go after a church, which is a private institution, they're preaching based on biblical teachings. And there are biblical admonitions against homosexuality."
For instance :
Conservative Anti-Choice Pastor Picked for Obama's Inauguration
By Sarah Posner, TheNation.com. Dec.18,2008
A very strange pick -- Pastor Rick Warren opposes gay marriage, doesn't believe in evolution and compared abortion to the Holocaust
Now it has officially gone too far: Democrats, in their zeal to appear friendly to evangelical voters, have chosen celebrity preacher and best-selling author Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at Barack Obama's inauguration.
There was no doubt that Obama, like every president before him, would pick a Christian minister to perform this sacred duty. But Obama had thousands of clergy to choose from, and the choice of Warren is not only a slap in the face to progressive ministers toiling on the front lines of advocacy and service, but a bow to the continuing influence of the religious right in American politics. Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Warren has done a masterful job at marketing himself as "new" kind of evangelical with a "broader agenda" than just fighting abortion rights and gay marriage. He dispatches members of his congregation to Africa to perform AIDS relief and has positioned himself as a great crusader for bringing his "purpose-driven" pabulum to the world.
...Warren called opposition to gay marriage a "humanitarian issue" because "God created marriage for the purpose of family, love and procreation."
...Warren, a creationist, believes that homosexuality disproves evolution; he told CNN's Larry King in 2005, "If Darwin was right, which is survival of the fittest then homosexuality would be a recessive gene because it doesn't reproduce and you would think that over thousands of years that homosexuality would work itself out of the gene pool."
and as Sarah Posner concludes that:
Warren represents the absolute worst of the Democrats' religious outreach, a right-winger masquerading as a do-gooder anointed as the arbiter of what it means to be faithful. Obama's religious outreach was intended, supposedly, to make religious voters more comfortable with him and feel included in the Democratic Party. But that outreach now has come at the expense of other people's comfort and inclusion, at an event meant to mark a turning point away from divisive politics.
and from Huffington Post on Rick Warren as Obama's choice How To Keep the hearts of bigots Warm through the Winter, by Harvey Fierstein, Dec. 23,2008 argues that:
He can call the placing of a hate monger like Rick Warren on the world dais political healing or inclusiveness or any other nicety he'd like, but I call it pandering to the lowest instinct of the worst kind of politics.
President Elect Obama, your victory was made possible in no small part to the votes and wallets of the gay and lesbian community along with our supporters. Turning your back on us does not make you more mainstream American. It just makes you a coward.
and:
at huffington Post Rachel Weiner is scathingly critical of Obama's choice of Rick Warren and about Obama's own views on Gays
Time Mag Columnist: Obama Is "Very Rational-Sounding Sort Of Bigot" By Rachel Weiner, dec. 21,2008
...Obama has proved himself repeatedly to be a very tolerant, very rational-sounding sort of bigot. He is far too careful and measured a man to say anything about body parts fitting together or marriage being reserved for the nonpedophilic, but all the same, he opposes equality for gay people when it comes to the basic recognition of their relationships. He did throughout his campaign, one that featured appearances by Donnie McClurkin, a Christian entertainer who preaches that homosexuals can become heterosexuals.
and Rep. Barney Frank is also critical of Obama on this choice: Obama's Choice Of Warren Is Very Disappointing
by barney frank, Dec.18, 2008
...the President-Elect has not simply invited Rev. Warren to give a speech as part of a series in which various views are presented. The selection of a member of the clergy to occupy this uniquely elevated position has always been considered a mark of respect and approval by those who are being inaugurated.
also checkout article comparing Rick Warren's invitation as disappointing and troubling but not as bad as the U.S. refusal to sign on to the Un Decaration against Descrimination of Gays :
Bad Company: US Fails Gay, Lesbian Citizens by The Boulder Daily Camera(Colorado) Dec. 23, 2008 by Clay Evans
*** Case of The United Church of Canada and Gay Rights, ordination and marriage:
see: "United Church Of Canada and Homosexuality" at Religious Tolerance.org
United Church of Canada :About 3.1 million Canadians identify themselves with the United Church of Canada. The church reports 684,000 confirmed members
This is the most liberal of the larger Protestant denominations in Canada. It is exceeded in size only by the Roman Catholic church. It was formed in 1925 by a merger of most congregations of the Association of Congregational Churches in Canada, the Methodist Church and the Presbyterian Church in Canada. Some Presbyterian congregations remained part of a separate mainline religious organization.
and in 1988 when the Church was deciding on the issue of Homosexuals in the church -
At the General Council ...a group of Christian, anti-homosexual Fundamentalists from the United States crashed the meeting and attempted to disrupt proceedings. They were gently ejected. Their open display of hatred for gays and lesbians may well have changed many delegates' minds in favor of homosexual ordination; it is impossible to tell. After much heated debate and maneuvering, Council passed a resolution with approximately a 3:1 vote:
"A) That all persons, regardless of their sexual orientation, who profess Jesus Christ and obedience to Him, are welcome to be or become full member of the Church.
B) All members of the Church are eligible to be considered for the Ordered Ministry."
A strange event had happened. The majority of delegates had come to the Council with a bias against ordaining homosexuals, but with an open mind. They heard the heart wrenching testimonies of devout gay and lesbian church members; many probably met an openly homosexual person for the first time in their life; they debated little else among themselves; they searched their souls and prayed to learn God's will. And most changed their mind!
The resolution was subsequently amended to include:
"that all Christian people are called to a lifestyle patterned on obedience to Jesus Christ."
and:
2005:The United Church of Canada, Canada's largest Protestant denomination, congratulated the government of Canada on its proposed same-sex marriage (SSM) law which the Church called a "win-win solution in the same-sex marriage debate." Rev. Dr. Jim Sinclair, General Secretary of the General Council, said: "Marriage will be enhanced, not diminished, religious freedom will be protected, not threatened, and Canadian society will be strengthened, not weakened, as a result of this legislation."
Statement from the Church:
"A significant, unique contribution that the United Church brings to this debate is the denomination's own experience of making same-sex marriage ceremonies available to its members and, at the same time, respecting the right of those within the denomination who are opposed to such services...Religious marriage is not, and cannot be, affected by the proposed legislation. All faith communities in Canada, whatever their views on same-sex marriage, have the absolute right to determine for themselves who will be eligible for religious marriage within their communities. This includes the right to determine whether the community will offer religious marriages to interfaith couples, to divorced couples, or to couples who are not members of the community."
and so it goes,
GORD.
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