Now the whole issue over torture gets crazier all the time. We discover that of course torture is not an effective tool for getting intel.
Unless of course like Bush & Cheney & Karl Rove & Condoleeza Rice et al want some fabricated intel to help them rationalize the invasion and incompetent occupation of Iraq ie to get false confessions to support the wild claims of informants such as the drunken meglomaniac supposed Iraqi insider Chalabi who hadn't been in Iraq for over a decade yet he claimed to know the ins and outs of Saddam's operation . Chalabi was not reliable nor were those beaten, tortured and sodomized by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld , Karl Rove and the gang.
The Gang here refers to all those who took part in the tortures, those who ordered the tortures, those who assisted thought medical or psychological help with the tortures and those like John Yoo & Bybee who twisted the law and bastardized the english language to create a "Legal Veneer " for these criminal and immoral tactics.
Imagine if you will how powerful they felt each time another detainee (POW) was plucked off of the streets of Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Germany, UK, or Italy or Spain or Canada and then spent time in an adult diaper and hooded and shackled to the floor of a plane for anywhere from 8 hours to 18 hrs or more.
They are told nothing except that they are all evil sobs who will get what's coming to them even though hunreds at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib were innocent -they were guilty 1. of being Iraqi or Afghan or Pakistanis etc. and then they were guilty for being Muslim and they were guilty for being patriotic if all they did was resist the occupation of their country.
And yet over six years after much of the details about the Bush/Cheney program of reverting to Medieval torture techniques or those used by Maoist or the Khmer Rouge or Stalin.
We are now told things have changed but there is little evidence to prove that we know there are dozens of secret prisoners where detainees basically disappear-though some eventually are allowed to go.
The US Media and the GOP and Pres. Obama and Hillary Clinton etc. seem to think that only such crude techniques such as waterboarding, or chopping off of fingers or bamboo shoots under the finger nails or the rack or Iron Maiden count as torture. This is an assumption still being made even by those in the US media who claim to be "progressives". Even they seem to have come to the conclusion of making a detainee sleep naked on a metal bed in a brightly lit cold room or forced to listen to some Heavy Metal band like Metallica or Rap Music full blast for 24 or more hours on end or told by guards that they have their wives and children in custody and will torture them or rape them all male and female .
Anyway what gets me is seeing Karl Rove or Condoleeza Rice or John Yoo smirking as they try to explain how those questioning these techniques are just"quaint" or too sentimental and "touchy feely" instead of being hard nosed no nonsense with hearts of ice or cold steel as they see themselves not as atypical or as the monsters that they are instead they see themselves as the guardians of Western Civilization or at least that is of the Elites in Western Civilization.
Part of their problem is that because they have achieved some success and are placed in positions of authority or have managed to get a few post-graduate degrees under their belt that they are not just more skilled in certain ways compared to others but in fact are above the fray they in fact believe themselves superiour and better than the majority of their fellow citizens. But for all we know is that they are just skilled at getting ahead and have spent years or decades maneuvering through government bureaucracies or in the private sector figuring out how to stab others in the back inorder to get what they want so these skills as such do not make for well informed intelligent leaders who will do what's right for their nation and not just what is right for them ie getting over-priced contracts for their corporations ie Haliburton .
And as for the current administration of Pres. Obama we can only be skeptical because every week new reports surface of prisoners incarcerated by the USA or NATO or the UK are being abused by US soldiers, CIA and their secret sadistic inquisitors as they produce more false confessions and thus create in the upcoming generations future anti-American fighters.
All I ever heard Obama say is that he would not use crude techniques such as waterboarding otherwise he tends to skirt the question and goes into lawyer mode in which its all a matter of the usage of certain words and nothing to do with the poor bastard lying naked in a cold cell while being called names and having his identity attacked and eventually destroyed ala George Orwell's 1984 in which torture was not a way to get information but to break the person and make them more compliant and totally obedient.
The USA and its government has over the past sixty years or so supported a whole horde of vile sadistic dictators who are brutal and corrupt and oppress their fellow citizens because they believe themselves to be superior to their own citizenry ie the Shah of Iran, Saddam,Musharraff, Bhutto, Pinochet and a hundred others who kept the oil flowing and sold off the natural resources and the nation's labor to enrich themselves and when someone complains they are arrested, beaten, tortured, killed or disappeared and quite often with the assistance of the CIA or its UK or French or German equivalent.
NOTE POST FIRST PUBLISHED 2005- 5years ago on March 31
CITIZEN BUSH
Posted by Hello
PRESIDENT BUSH & HIS ADVISORS
Posted by Hello
AND NOW FOR A POLITICAL RANT:
MEMORABLE QUOTES OF BUSH'S MILITARY COMMANDERS:
“We don’t do body counts”
General Tommy Franks, US Central Command
“Change the channel”
- Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt's advice to Iraqis who see TV images of innocent civilians killed by coalition troops.
p://www.iraqbodycount.net/
Iraq (War on Terrorism)
links compiled by Tim Rozgonyi of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
rozgonyi@post-gazette.com
I found a great website where some of the outspoken critics of Bush & his followers can be found at
www.disidentvoice.org which includes numerous well researched , thoughtful & up to date articles on the issues which affect the USA & the rest of the world.
It is comforting to know there are still some people who are willing to speak out & be counted in this dark period of neo-conservatism & religious right fanaticism. If things get worse even these voices of dissent may be silenced. Or they will be lost in the noise being raised & daily growing on the NET of the Neo-Consrvatism groups & individuals filling the internet with their anger ,vehemence, hatred & self-righteousness since they believe they are in the Right because God planned it this way & all those Voices of Dissent are the puppets of the ANTI-CHRIST in their view. For these people everything is unfolding exactly as it should that is according to the BOOK OF REVELATIONS.
Now how in the name of God does one even begin a civilized discussion in such an over-charged environment. On one side we have people who quote the Bible & talk of the coming RAPTURE ARMAGEDDON & THE APOCALYPSE while others like myself & human rights watch groups talk about mundane matters like human rights.
It is especially of crucial value to hear other voices as the mass media out of indifference or fear are unwilling to do factual reporting on the WAR IN IRAQ - yes for those who have forgotten the US is involved in an extremely bloody war in Iraq which has resulted in the deaths of at least 125,000 Iraqis, 80% or more of these deaths have been non-combatants . According to the US military & President Bush they are merely collateral damage, that is expendable human beings. Odd since the same people are so concerned about abortion & shed more tears for a foetus or some pitiful human being reduced to a semi-vegitative state than for the poor & homeless in their own country or the hundreds on death row waiting ; so for so called foreigners they care even less. The Bush administration & the Neo-Conservatives have little regard for the lives of those who haven't been washed in the blood of their saviour Jesus Christ or their other saviour George W. Bush or one of their Saints such as St. Ronald Reagan , St. Richard Nixon, St. Barry Goldwater, St. Joseph Mcarthy, St. Jesse Helms or St. J. Edgar Hoover.
But it is still a matter of debate if all this death & destruction is just for OIL & to increase the profits of companies such as Halliburton or to punish the Islamic & Arab world for 9/11 or the beginning of the fulfilling of Biblical prophecy with Bush leading his army into Armageddon. Bush of course is quite willing to put other Americans in harms way in Iraq & Afganistan & elsewhere but never himself his friends or their children . Wouldn't it be nice for once if such leaders were to take to the battlefield themselves like the Kings in the distant past.
The other disturbing matter is the lack of in-depth on-going reporting in the mass media of the abuses of the US military of POWS . There is also minimum coverage about the numerous allegations against companies like Haliburton who ,for instance, charged millions in US funds to ship 82,000 dollars worth of cooking oil to US forces in Iraq. So why be concerned as long as The Military Industrial Complex is making a profit that's good news for America even at the cost of the lives 1,500 American soldiers so far.
War has always been a profitable enterprise for a few at least. & those few are the one's in our society who according to Neo-Conservatives in the US & Canada & throughout the west are the people who matter the most. (as George Orwell said some people are more equal than others)
As for the Mass Media it is mainly in the hands of big corporations who are far more concerned with keeping on the good side of Bush & his followers than with truth or integrity. Integrity in the US is up for sale & why should this surprise anyone. & yes I do impgn the character of Bush & most of his advisors why should they be above & beyond the law Or normal ethical considerations well of course the NEOCONS tell us they are backed by GOD &the Heavenly Host.
But I guess Americans in general agree with Bush that it is their God-Given Right to dictate how other countries are to behave & who their leaders are to be . For years the US propped up the brutal regime of Saddam Huessin when it suited their needs they didn't give a shit about the Iraqi people then.
We should also remember that they supported the brutal & deadly anti-democratic regime of The Shah Of Iran . It can be argued that if the Americans had supported the moderate voices of dissent within Iran then the Shah could have been ousted & a more open & democratic form of government could have replaced the Regime but as usual the US supported a dictator who destroyed most of the moderats leaving the door open for the extremist under the Ayatolla .
The United States was the major power which supported for several decades The Apartheid Regime in South Africa .& now they support an unpopular regime in Afghanistan & their friends in that country the Drug War Lords in that country since Opium is still the major industry in Afghanistan. Then again the US & the WEST still need their heroine to get by.
Here are some examples of articles to be found at the site THE DISSIDENT VOICE:
The Fundamentalist Christian Mindset
and the Problem it Presents for America
by Lee Salisbury
a former evangelical preacher, writes for www.axisoflogic.com and www.dissendentvoice.org.
March 29, 2005
and : http://www.tomdispatch.com
Deconstructing Iraq: Year Three Begins
Also see in regard to AMERICAN foreign policy unilateralism &THE GLOBAL FREE -MARKET ECONOMY
Terrorism and the New National Defense Strategy of the US
by Adam Williams
March 29, 2005
For more info See THE CRITICAL ART ENSEMBLE DEFENSE FUND on the issue of attacks by FBI & BUSH ADMINISTRATION on Academia & artists
at http://www.caedefensefund.org/
As for the numerous scandals connected with the BUSH REGIME see for instance the Website THE UPPER LEFT SCANDAL SCOREBOARD at
www.zipcon.net/stdale/scorecard
if half the allegations are true then President Bush should face Impeachment proceedings.
Anyway that's enough of the SURREAL WORLD OF POLITICS & WAR !!!!!
See you next time same war same channel or different war same channel ??? ANYWAY same BAT TIME !!!
GORD.
CITIZEN BUSH
Posted by Hello
PRESIDENT BUSH & HIS ADVISORS
Posted by Hello
AND NOW FOR A POLITICAL RANT:
MEMORABLE QUOTES OF BUSH'S MILITARY COMMANDERS:
“We don’t do body counts”
General Tommy Franks, US Central Command
“Change the channel”
- Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt's advice to Iraqis who see TV images of innocent civilians killed by coalition troops.
p://www.iraqbodycount.net/
Iraq (War on Terrorism)
links compiled by Tim Rozgonyi of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
rozgonyi@post-gazette.com
I found a great website where some of the outspoken critics of Bush & his followers can be found at
www.disidentvoice.org which includes numerous well researched , thoughtful & up to date articles on the issues which affect the USA & the rest of the world.
It is comforting to know there are still some people who are willing to speak out & be counted in this dark period of neo-conservatism & religious right fanaticism. If things get worse even these voices of dissent may be silenced. Or they will be lost in the noise being raised & daily growing on the NET of the Neo-Consrvatism groups & individuals filling the internet with their anger ,vehemence, hatred & self-righteousness since they believe they are in the Right because God planned it this way & all those Voices of Dissent are the puppets of the ANTI-CHRIST in their view. For these people everything is unfolding exactly as it should that is according to the BOOK OF REVELATIONS.
Now how in the name of God does one even begin a civilized discussion in such an over-charged environment. On one side we have people who quote the Bible & talk of the coming RAPTURE ARMAGEDDON & THE APOCALYPSE while others like myself & human rights watch groups talk about mundane matters like human rights.
It is especially of crucial value to hear other voices as the mass media out of indifference or fear are unwilling to do factual reporting on the WAR IN IRAQ - yes for those who have forgotten the US is involved in an extremely bloody war in Iraq which has resulted in the deaths of at least 125,000 Iraqis, 80% or more of these deaths have been non-combatants . According to the US military & President Bush they are merely collateral damage, that is expendable human beings. Odd since the same people are so concerned about abortion & shed more tears for a foetus or some pitiful human being reduced to a semi-vegitative state than for the poor & homeless in their own country or the hundreds on death row waiting ; so for so called foreigners they care even less. The Bush administration & the Neo-Conservatives have little regard for the lives of those who haven't been washed in the blood of their saviour Jesus Christ or their other saviour George W. Bush or one of their Saints such as St. Ronald Reagan , St. Richard Nixon, St. Barry Goldwater, St. Joseph Mcarthy, St. Jesse Helms or St. J. Edgar Hoover.
But it is still a matter of debate if all this death & destruction is just for OIL & to increase the profits of companies such as Halliburton or to punish the Islamic & Arab world for 9/11 or the beginning of the fulfilling of Biblical prophecy with Bush leading his army into Armageddon. Bush of course is quite willing to put other Americans in harms way in Iraq & Afganistan & elsewhere but never himself his friends or their children . Wouldn't it be nice for once if such leaders were to take to the battlefield themselves like the Kings in the distant past.
The other disturbing matter is the lack of in-depth on-going reporting in the mass media of the abuses of the US military of POWS . There is also minimum coverage about the numerous allegations against companies like Haliburton who ,for instance, charged millions in US funds to ship 82,000 dollars worth of cooking oil to US forces in Iraq. So why be concerned as long as The Military Industrial Complex is making a profit that's good news for America even at the cost of the lives 1,500 American soldiers so far.
War has always been a profitable enterprise for a few at least. & those few are the one's in our society who according to Neo-Conservatives in the US & Canada & throughout the west are the people who matter the most. (as George Orwell said some people are more equal than others)
As for the Mass Media it is mainly in the hands of big corporations who are far more concerned with keeping on the good side of Bush & his followers than with truth or integrity. Integrity in the US is up for sale & why should this surprise anyone. & yes I do impgn the character of Bush & most of his advisors why should they be above & beyond the law Or normal ethical considerations well of course the NEOCONS tell us they are backed by GOD &the Heavenly Host.
But I guess Americans in general agree with Bush that it is their God-Given Right to dictate how other countries are to behave & who their leaders are to be . For years the US propped up the brutal regime of Saddam Huessin when it suited their needs they didn't give a shit about the Iraqi people then.
We should also remember that they supported the brutal & deadly anti-democratic regime of The Shah Of Iran . It can be argued that if the Americans had supported the moderate voices of dissent within Iran then the Shah could have been ousted & a more open & democratic form of government could have replaced the Regime but as usual the US supported a dictator who destroyed most of the moderats leaving the door open for the extremist under the Ayatolla .
The United States was the major power which supported for several decades The Apartheid Regime in South Africa .& now they support an unpopular regime in Afghanistan & their friends in that country the Drug War Lords in that country since Opium is still the major industry in Afghanistan. Then again the US & the WEST still need their heroine to get by.
Here are some examples of articles to be found at the site THE DISSIDENT VOICE:
The Fundamentalist Christian Mindset
and the Problem it Presents for America
by Lee Salisbury
a former evangelical preacher, writes for www.axisoflogic.com and www.dissendentvoice.org.
March 29, 2005
and : http://www.tomdispatch.com
Deconstructing Iraq: Year Three Begins
Also see in regard to AMERICAN foreign policy unilateralism &THE GLOBAL FREE -MARKET ECONOMY
Terrorism and the New National Defense Strategy of the US
by Adam Williams
March 29, 2005
For more info See THE CRITICAL ART ENSEMBLE DEFENSE FUND on the issue of attacks by FBI & BUSH ADMINISTRATION on Academia & artists
at http://www.caedefensefund.org/
As for the numerous scandals connected with the BUSH REGIME see for instance the Website THE UPPER LEFT SCANDAL SCOREBOARD at
www.zipcon.net/stdale/scorecard
if half the allegations are true then President Bush should face Impeachment proceedings.
Anyway that's enough of the SURREAL WORLD OF POLITICS & WAR !!!!!
See you next time same war same channel or different war same channel ??? ANYWAY same BAT TIME !!!
GORD.
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