Friday, December 18, 2009

Islamic And Christian Theocracies / US Muslims Fight Extremism/ Sharia & Democracy/ Bible Supports Slavery

UPDATE: 12:17 PM Dec. 18, 2009

"The Bible forbids eating Shrimp and the wearing of clothes of two different fabrics but slavery not so much "
Slavery sanctioned by the Old and New Testament
Should Christians and Jews be permitted to implement the laws of the Bible as opposed to the Laws of the Land-ie America, Canada & Europe etc. which have banned slavery ? (Compare to Islamic Sharia Law which also goes against Liberal Humanist belief in the dignity and "the Rights of Man"

If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
(1 Timothy, chapter 6, V. 2, 3, 4)

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
(Exodus Chapter 21, V. 7 & 8)

Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

(Leviticus, chapter 25, V.44-46)

Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ (Ephesians, chapter 6, V. 5)

Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
But godliness with contentment is great gain.
(1 Timothy, chapter 6)

The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
(Mathew Chapter 10, V. 24,25)

Quotes From: The Bible, King James Version Old and New Testaments, with the Apocrypha
(See video below from asilentskeptic,August 16, 2008)

Note in the above passages God and Jesus of Nazareth condemn anyone who dares question the Laws as set down by Jehovah /Yahweh . So by banning slavery Christians and Jews have broken God's commands !!!

Glenn Beck and others who say that so-called moderate Muslims refuse to speak out against Islamic extremism for them here is a statement from CAIR .

CAIR Video: U.S. Muslims to Challenge Extremism

There are those who are opposed to the implementation of Islamic Sharia law without considering that there might be a way to compromise on the issue. The question raised then is whether some form of compromise could be possible which does not go against the Western values of democracy and justice and human rights. There are within Western nations groups religious or cultural which have their own set of rules or laws such as the Amish or the Mormons LDS the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints etc.But here are some restrictions placed upon them. In the case of Sharia Law certain laws and punishments would not be permitted such as stoning, honor killings , female genital circumcision or mutilation etc.Muslims living in Canada or the United States or Europe would not be permitted to kill a Muslim who willingly converted to another religion. And they would have to obey the Laws of the land concerning the treatment of children and women for example .

The slippery slope by rozeboosje :An Atheist Considers Implementation of Sharia
October 14, 2008
Just a reminder to all that the slippery slope argument, i.e. opposing something that could be reasonable just because you feel it might lead to something horrible in the future, is actually a well known logical fallacy. And that is no less true if such a slippery slope argument is put forward by an atheist.

In this case, supporting Muslims' desire to put in place a legal framework that would allow them to make civil arrangements in accordance with "Sharia Law" based rules if all parties involved are willing to engage with this is NOT the same as supporting executions by stoning and the cutting off of limbs.

Max Blumenthal argues in the video below that the Religious Right & the radical Conservative movement in their worship of the past and so called traditional values want to raise children in such a way that they do not question those values and traditions or those in authority. They fear the very idea of real freedom and individual autonomy. This view ironically is shared by the Muslims whom they see as an enemy. The traditional ,Orthodox Muslims also believe in a strict adherence to Sharia law and to maintaining certain values and traditions which may or may not be part of Islamic teachings or which originally resided in the Quran or the life of Muhammad. Those Muslims who refuse to act according to the law of the land will be judged by the law of the land .This must be made clear to all Muslims as it is also applies to those who follow other traditions . Evangelical Christians in our democratic society must also obey the laws of the land. If they believe that according to their religion that it is permissible for men to beat their wives or their children for instance this will not be tolerated.

Max Blumenthal: The Far Right 'Hates' Children

Beck Defends Three-Fifths Clause

Glenn Beck once again confused or deliberately misleads his audience about the Founding Fathers and Slavery- Most of them supported slavery
and the Head Tax Beck believed to be an entrance fee to America was actually a tax for each slave imported to the US.Beck is trying to find ways to gloss over the immorality and barbarism of slavery.

WPITW: slavery proponent Glenn Beck. Hard to disagree with Keith here...

The Religious Right and the radical Conservatives are as opposed to compromise as the conservative or orthodox Muslims when it comes to their religious beliefs and adherence to Christian and American traditional values and beliefs.
They would also prefer as do the radical Muslims to create abolish the Separation of Church and State and create a Theocracy. A Christian Fundamentalist theocracy would not be much different than a Islamic Theocracy. Both would claw back the rights of women, children and of those who are not of the prevailing religion.

Video: Franklin Graham Repeats Attacks on Islam
Dec. 11, 2009

Franklin Graham- Abstinence as best way to prevent HIV
another American Puritan

He believes the Bible is the literal inerrant Word of God in the same way as Muslims believe the Quran and Hadiths are the word of Allah .

In this clip he glosses over the influence of the Religious Right in American politics. He also claims Evangelical Christians want to preach the Gospel world wide but are not trying to make the citizens of the world into Christians. He therefore believes Christianity is different from Islam in this way. But to those of us who spend time observing the Religious Right and Evangelical Christians whether Baptists or Pentecostal there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in the ultimate goals they have of making all the nations into Christian nations and that of of the more militant Muslims. Both seek to create some form of theocracy (Dominionists, Reconstructionists )Franklin Graham may sound somewhat tolerant but he like his father is not. He believes that only his religion is the true religion and all other religions are false and therefore are anti-Christian, anti-Jesus, anti-God and are not simply in error but if they don't repent and be "Born Again" they those who are not Christian are all bound for Hell. Just because he is soft spoken doesn't mean his message is any less dogmatic, strident or as militant as Pastor John Hagee, James Dobson, or Pat Robertson or Ron Luce's Battle Cry! ministries or Lou Engels etc.

Franklin Graham. He's the son of one of the most influential preachers on the planet, the Reverend Billy Graham, and he's following in his father's footsteps.

He openly condemns homosexuality, pre-marital sex, and view condoms as more of a problem than a solution

Franklin Graham says only Evangelical Christianity is the way to salvation. All other religions are false.
Note the advertisement for his book which one can receive if you pledge some money to his church so he can continue to build his Empire of materialism
Then he makes an appeal to teenagers and young adults to enjoy a weekend of Christian Rock Music and a lot of preaching- then another quest for offerings to help sponsor the event-money, money, money-

No other way to God - Franklin Graham - part 1 of 2

Slavery is acceptable both in the old and New Testament
Slavery in the Bible (Are we more Moral than God?)

August 16, 2008

Another Christian who says slavery was practiced by Europeans and Christians for a shorter period of time than it was practiced by Arabs & Muslims. But he ignores that slavery was not just practiced by Arabs or Muslims. Slavery was an institution long before the birth of Muhammad or Jesus. The Israelites themselves had slaves which was sanctioned by the Bible /the Torah and Jehovah. He ignores the fact that the Romans and Greeks also practiced slavery. For instance when Julius Ceaser declared war on the Celts we are told he mass murdered a million Celts and took another million captive as slaves.
The ancient Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Persians , Sumerians , Phonecians, the Hittites and Cananites also practiced slavery. We also know that the Incas and Aztecs and other peoples including the Chinese and Japanese and the peoples of India were involved in slavery.
So yes he's correct that Christians did not invent slavery but nor did the Muslims or the Arabs. Slavery existed some 3,000 years before Jesus or Muhammad.

But he is wrong to presume that the Old Testament or the New Testament was against slavery . Slavery as such in the Bible and in the Quran is simply taken as part of the natural order in the same way both believed as did almost all cultures that women were to a greater or lesser extent inferior to men.

The other issue is that those Christians who were against slavery were on the one hand influenced by a more liberal and humanist manner of interpreting parts of the Gospels while also being influenced by philosophers of the Enlightenment and the Age of Reason and by the first stirrings of Modernity. It is a liberal humanist idea that all men are to be viewed as being equal and that they have certain rights. These present day apologists for Judeo-Christian traditions and values should read Thomas Paine's "The Rights Of Man" or the works of others such as the Scottish poet Robert Burns or the English mystic William Blake.

Like many Christians he refuses to recognize many of the values and what have you preached by Jesus of Nazareth(Isa) had been around to some extend centuries before the founding of Christianity or Islam.

057-Slavery-its history in Islam & Christianity

January 02, 2008

and so it goes,

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