Thursday, November 01, 2007


discussing torture as if there were two sides to the issues- there is being fair & balanced - but is there not right & wrong - no its all up for grabs - the sort of relativism which the Religious Right & the Neocons accuse liberals & other secularists of - they seem to be guilty of - torture is wrong sometimes when Saddam does it & right when we do it - lying is wrong sometimes but not others ok to cheat your neighbor sometimes ok to steal sometimes ok to commit adultery sometimes ok to bomb innocent civilians when we do it not when they do it- ok to starve a nation's population into submission when we do it not when they do it - ok for us to kill enemy wounded not ok for the enemy do it - cluster bombs which create lots of collateral damage aka murdering civilians along with the enemy but their home made nasty bombs are evil & wrong-& never admit to doing the wrong thing if your infallible how can you do the wrong thing -

MSNBC - on waterboarding - legal, constitutional, christian

We live in strange days indeed - reality becomes stranger than fiction & so the reality begins to sound like parody in these dark days before the next war coming soon to a country near you as the West begins to plunder the whole world led by the Leaders of America aka The Promised Land of milk & honey while the rest of the world lives off of locusts & dirt as God commands- so here goes-

"It was the best of times..." that is for the well to do & Westerners & for the oil rich areas of Alberta & Texas & all those able to get in on the ground floor for those lavish contracts to help destroy Iraq or re-build it after we destroy it & now those entrepreneurs can't wait for the bombing of Iran to begin all those arms to sell all those boots & food to sell to the military & even more mercenaries to hire for some it is a glorious time & for others it is the worst of times - just remember " There's no such thing as a free lunch or free medicine or free shelter even if we blow up your house ,your apartment building, your town, or your city it is the Will of God as it were -

Anyway here is an interesting & disturbing bit about Waterboarding & other torture techniques which prove to the rest of the world how we in the West are morally superior to all those outside of the West who refuse to accept our superiority & that History & God are on our side - well sort of that's what I've been told & to say otherwise would prove that this writer must be anti-Western & anti-Christian & therefore an enemy of the STATE- Praise be To BIG BROTHER who is never to be doubted - and so it goes -so what's a little Waterboarding especially when you have American Physicians & American Psychologists & other Professionals with various accredited degrees to aid in the Inquisition oh I mean ah...Interrogation besides it is a means to fill our enemies with fear that the fact is there is nothing we will not do to preserve our Empire oh I mean our civilized humane & loving Culture of Freedom , Justice & Fraternity sorry I misspoke there a little so let us bow & grovel at the feet of President Dick Cheney & his Co-President George W. Bush - well once there were three popes at the same time why not two or more Presidents at the same time -
& like the POPES Dick Cheney, George Bush & Condoleeza Rice are " infallible " as decreed by GOD & Saint Leo Strauss .

Thursday, November 1, 2007 by The Independent/UK
Waterboarding Is Torture - I Did It Myself, says US Advisor

by Leonard Doyle

In a further embarrassment for Mr Bush yesterday, Malcolm Nance, an advisor on terrorism to the US departments of Homeland Security, Special Operations and Intelligence, publicly denounced the practice. He revealed that waterboarding is used in training at the US Navy’s Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School in San Diego, and claimed to have witnessed and supervised “hundreds” of waterboarding exercises. Although these last only a few minutes and take place under medical supervision, he concluded that “waterboarding is a torture technique - period”.

The practice involves strapping the person being interrogated on to a board as pints of water are forced into his lungs through a cloth covering his face while the victim’s mouth is forced open. Its effect, according to Mr Nance, is a process of slow-motion suffocation.

Typically, a victim goes into hysterics on the board as water fills his lungs. “How much the victim is to drown,” Mr Nance wrote in an article for the Small Wars Journal, “depends on the desired result and the obstinacy of the subject.

“A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience to horrific, suffocating punishment, to the final death spiral. For the uninitiated, it is horrifying to watch.”

The CIA director Michael Hayden has tried to defuse the controversy. He claims that, since 2002, aggressive interrogation methods in which a prisoner believes he is about to die have been used on only about 30 of the 100 al-Qai’da suspects being held by the US. Meanwhile, a CIA official told The New York Times waterboarding had only been used three times. The Bush administration has suggested that the interrogation of al-Qai’da’s second-in-command, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, was a success thanks to the technique, and used this to justify continued aggressive interrogations of suspects in secret CIA prisons.

While US media reports typically state that waterboarding involves “simulated drowning”, Mr Nance explained that “since the lungs are actually filling with water”, there is nothing simulated about it. “Waterboarding,” he said, “is slow-motion suffocation with enough time to contemplate the inevitability of blackout and expiration. When done right, it is controlled death.”

Mr Nance said US troops were trained to withstand waterboarding, watched by a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator and a backup team. “When performed with even moderate intensity over an extended time on an unsuspecting prisoner - it is torture, without doubt,” he added. “Most people cannot stand to watch a high-intensity, kinetic interrogation. One has to overcome basic human decency to endure watching or causing the effects. The brutality would force you into a personal moral dilemma between humanity and hatred. It would leave you to question the meaning of what it is to be an American.”

Take care,

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